Hi everyone and welcome back to the E-Commerce Impact Podcast. This week we've got Valentine Radu, who is the founder and c e O of Omni Convert, a self-proclaimed customer value optimization evangelist who's coming along to talk to us all about customer lifetime value optimization and why it's so important in today's very expensive in the days of very expensive customer acquisition.

He's got some really actionable advice for tools and frameworks you can use to make sure that the customers you are acquiring are of the most value to you, and that you're focusing on optimizing that value in the long term. That we cover a whole range of different topics, some really awesome frameworks and.

You'll get some really actionable tips that you can go away and work on straight away in your e-commerce business. I guarantee you will not regret listening to this episode. If you have profitability and and growing your business through through customer acquisition is on your mind at the moment, it won't disappoint.

So I hope you enjoy the episode and looking forward to hearing what you think.

Hi Valentine, welcome to the show. Hi there Jesse. And hello everyone. Thanks for having me here. Yeah, no worries. So my first question to you is a broad one, a big one. So how can eCommerce brands increase their customer lifetime value in eCommerce at the moment?

First of all, you can't improve what you don't measure, right? So you have to monitor it. You have to measure customer lifetime value, and it's important to do it because it's affecting your entire organization.

So the health of any company companies about how profitable. Company when it boils down to the customer that are, they're getting. So basically there is this balance between customer lifetime value and customer acquisition cost, how much you are getting from a newly acquired customers, and how much you are paying to, to acquire that customer.

So basically one thing that they need to do. It's to don't treat customer lifetime value as it's gravity. Yeah. So CLV can be affected and you can affect it only by measuring it once you, you measure it. Another important thing to understand what are the levers that you, you can pull in order to affect customer lifetime value.

The first thing is to, to make sure that your products are there, so nobody's going to come back to buy again. Suboptimal products. Yeah, so basically you need to understand if your products are good enough, yet they have the quality and the customers are extracting the value from those products.

The second part of affecting the customer lifetime value is the customer experience. Which means, okay, the products are okay, but have you delivered on your promise? Have you reached my expectations as a customer? So all of those things are how. Your product, and this is the customer experience. And we all know that we can find the same products to a lot of vendors, right?

So we, we can find the same products from a lot of merchants website, on and in brick and mortar retailers as well. And the first thing that you can you can do is to affect the marketing. So marketing means what type of. Messaging are you using, how you are what are you doing post purchase, how you are educating your, your customers?

How, what, what are you doing afterwards? And to, to be frank, what I, I'm in this space for years now, and I, I've seen that one of the things that almost all the eCommerce brands are doing, they don't. Care about if they've fulfilled the promise to their customers and they are bombarding them to come back to buy again.

So we, as consumers, we, we would feel bad about this type of approach, right? If, if I'm buying any kind of product, and if you don't show me as a, as a company that you care about me. To see if, have I actually used or consumed your product? Am I actually satisfied? So how come you come back into my inbox with some discount coupons and you bombard me with remarketing ads to buy again?

So I think that that's the worst thing that the, the companies must do. And basically, if I would be suggesting the first thing that any company should be doing in order to increase the customer lifetime value would be to simply verify. If their customers are happy and if they are not happy, why they are unhappy, because you can, no amount of marketing is going to fix a broken product or a broken customer experience, and that's why I've, I've studied that marketing is the last component of those three pillars of customer value optimization.

Yeah, that's so interesting. I'm sitting here with my marketing hat on always and thinking how many times have I told my clients, you know, and people that I mentor, you know, about their post-purchase flow and, you know winback flows and all of these things and actually haven't sat them down and said, If people aren't coming back, maybe there's a more fundamental reason, and email flows aren't gonna fix a broken experience.

So what can people do? I'm gonna hone in on that particular element. What can people do to improve? The customer experience. In your view, what are the, what are the key strategies there? I'm a big fan. I'm a huge fan of net promoters called nps, so I'm a former eCommerce entre jc and I, I can share a story about how I've stumbled upon CV and nps.

So back in the days I've been running a company, we were selling car insurance and we, we looked at. All sorts of ways to improve the traffic, to decrease the customer acquisition cost and whatever. I was wasting my life in Google Analytics, and at some point I've realized, you know what, what if we would be asking the customers, if they, if they like our service, if they have issues with the delivery, because we were using third party companies to ship our products, our, our insurance policies at, at that time.

The, the results were amazing. So we've, we've learned so much about our broken processes that we've said at some point, you know what, we were not even aware about those things. So NPS would be the first thing that I would be recommending because once you know what's Broken. You can fix it. Yeah.

Unless you close the loop, the feedback loop. And unless you understand, which are the top three things that we should be monitoring, because the NPS has this beautiful follow up questions. Like what? The, the first question is I, I think everyone knows it. What are the chances on a scale from zero to 10 to recommend us?

And then you will have detractors, the ones that give you zero to six, and then you have neutral seven to eight, and then you have promoters nine to 10, and. After that, you can ask your customers what made you give us this score? And then you get those open answers and you look at those, you can extract the insights from those, and you can see what are the recurring teams, what are the things that the detractors are stating, what are the things that the promoters are stating?

And I, I'm always telling this to, to, to the brands that I'm more working with and I'm having this conversation with eCommerce leaders. Your customers are the best copywriters. So with the NPS and with. Follow up questions. You can get the struggles and why. The why behind buying the product. And with the data from the detractors, you can look at what's broken.

Yeah. Because the ones that give you zero out of zero to 10, maybe they have an issue and those issues must be monitored. And basically that's why exist. That's why omni converting is we are. Blended the qualitative data. With the quantitative data and mainly we, we, we realized that nps, it's a great way to measure the customer experience, but you need two or even free particular moments throughout the customer journey.

Pre-delivery, which means when customers are placing their first order. Yeah. When someone is buying something from you, they don't buy the product, they buy the marketing. Yeah. You, you, you've promised things and they can't see them. In eCommerce, you, you basically sell the promise of a product, which is going to have some features and you need to verify what are the expectations that you've set and how good is the buying process in itself.

And if you have the low NPS delivery, pre-delivery, that. You don't even do a good job in promising what, what you're and, and fulfilling the promise of of the purchase process. And then the post delivery, it's also important because you, you see the delivery gap, what you've promised, and yet what you've managed to deliver.

And we are seeing all this data and for me, I'm like kid in the. In the toy store. You know, I, I see all these patterns because the Delta nps, the difference between pre-delivery and post delivery can be negative or positive. That means you either over, over promising or you either under delivering. So you don't wanna do that.

So basically that's what, that's how I would start. I would start by implementing the NPS pre-post delivery or. Post usage because there is another moment. Let's say you are selling cosmetics. Your website and your Facebook ads are amazing. You are promising, I don't know, better skin with vegan, whatever, natural friendly creams, and then you get the predelivery.

Let's say you have 85, which would be the best, yeah, to, if you are above 85, that's where you should be doing, you should be staying. We have customers that are even having 97, but those are completely obsessed. Brands. Yeah. And then you have once you've bought the cream, you see what are the, what is the experience post purchase?

So when you got the creams, what was the, the delivery. And then let's say after three weeks, you do a, a post usage nps. So that you can understand if the cream is doing their, the job, because nobody's buying products. Everyone buys progress. Yeah. We don't have, we don't wanna own objects. We wanna have a better version of ourselves, or we wanna have the, the ones we love and and so on.

So basically that's what I would do in terms of improving the customer experience. That's so interesting. So and what kind of tools do you use to ca to capture that information? Like for people that are very new to this, explain like step by step how they'd go about, about implementing a feedback system like this.

Mm-hmm. . Yeah. So mainly our, our software does almost all, so it's omni convert plus CLA view. We're using clavio flows to, to trigger. Purchase and the post usage geo flows. And with Omni Convert, it's basically you place this overlay with the survey on the thank you page and with the emails you, you, you push people to, to, to either an overlay that you, you configure on your website or to a page that you're designing for, for this purpose.

So pretty much that's that's how Those things can be set up. It's like a simple wizard that, that you should be taking into account. And of course you need to adjust it to, to look like it's your own brand. Yeah. Cool. So we'll link in the show notes to to Omni Convert and make sure that you, everyone, Allison listeners have access to that.

And so once it's, sounds like it's a pretty straightforward implementation process, once it's implemented, what's the process of actually. Interpreting the feedback. Mm-hmm. , and, and you know, at what point is it significant, how often should, should brands be looking at it? How are they actually taking that feedback and making it, you know, building it into business decisions?

Yeah, that's, that's a great question, Jesse, because indeed data is, is as useful as you take action on that data. So we, we have also integrations with help desk solutions and we are. Basically, if we have detractors, so people that gave you those scores, you can automatically trigger a ticket. To your customer support team.

So basically that's turning into a ticket in Goias or in Zenes that everyone should take into account and mm-hmm. , we have another very important component with the is the RFM segment. Yeah. In order to increase customer lifetime value, you need to segment your customers, because not all the customers are rated equal.

So one, one of your best customers can bring you up to 300 times. More net margin. So you, you can't treat everyone the same. For instance, we have a brand, one of our first customers they are having this NPS of 90 something and they have a priority system. So when someone, which is among the most loyal customers, they're best customers in which they call the soul.

With the rfm, you have recency frequency and monetary value. So the soulmates are their best customers. So when a soulmate is placing an order, they have five minutes to, to, to fulfill, to, to, to get in touch with that, that customer, because those are there's a B2B company which is doing this. So they, they have the the CV justifies this type of high touch, high maintenance customer support and more.

If they have a ticket, they also have in, in their order management system, they have a red alert, something like that, and they have a countdown. Say they need to, their customer supporting. They, they need to get into in touch with that customer, which is also a soulmate. And a detractors. Yeah.

Their best customers, which are pissed off. You can't wa you can't waste time to, to see what's happening over there. So that's how it works. And also in terms of reporting the best companies that we work with, they schedule this type of overview. That's what's happened last week. So they can see their nps month over.

Year over year, in the same week, they can see the NPS by category, by type of the pro the customers, by the brands that they are selling. And even with our solution, they can see the NPS by employee. And I can, I can share a funny story here. One of our customers from from the us rockstar Original, so they are selling Urban of streetwear.

Yeah. And they had the, they had this issues with their cast, with their people in the in their warehouse. So they looked over the nps and they've seen that there's a drop in the nps and their night shift were actually. Having a good time. So they weren't paying too much attention, let's say, to the sizes.

And they got a, a negative NPS only for those two particular individuals. So out of 40 people, which were doing the fulfillment. Yeah. And I'm, I'm, because you can track the order number and you can see, okay, who fulfilled those orders and was the nps by employee, by role, by brand and whatever. So they've discovered these kind of things and that's, that's how useful the nps.

Right. So they discovered that there was a particular employee that was Slack slacking off at night. . Yeah, exactly. Maybe having a drink or something, having a sleep . Yeah. And they were able to see that that was the cause of the problems. That's so interesting. So, so this system allows you to have both kind of like to actually take action on individual customers, but also to see patterns over.

So that you can make changes in your business to improve things. That's, that's really interesting. Okay, cool. What about customer acquisition cost? How, another big question for you. How can, how can e-commerce brands decrease customer acquisition cost in 2023, which is nearly upon us now? Yeah, I think the, the, the best thing that they should be doing is to, to to not to decrease the customer acquisition cost for the customers that they actually want.

Yeah. So they need to, to, to segment their customers first and to see who are their val, their most valuable customers, and are there any patterns in terms of the products that they are buying. Because at this moment, if you identify this kind of anomalies, maybe you should bid higher, not lower for some particular products.

Which will bring you more sticky customers. And there's an analysis that we, we are doing, and this is default in our system. You know, it's an analysis based on what's the customer lifetime value based on the first acquired product. So if you look at the things this way and if you realize that, hey, we have if our customers, and of course this applies to, to e-commerce companies that are having enough SKUs, because if you have only free SKUs, there's not too much to get from there.

But if you have dozens or hundreds or thousands of SKUs, you can see some anomalies and the CV can be as, as high as 10 times between the worst performing products and the best performing products. And that's one way to not decrease, but to optimize the customer acquisition cost, meaning you should bid on the, on the best horses that you have.

Another way to decrease the customer acquisition cost is, Simply do customer research. So I'm a big fan of customer research and going back down to memory lane we. We made some research six years ago, and basically that's how we've we've shifted our ways from the CRO to the cvo because basically we were initially in the conversion rate optimization space, and then we've shifted our turned the, turned the ship around towards customer value optimization, and we were working with a.

And they were paying a lot on on acquisition. Yeah. There was a lot of competition. One of the biggest shoe retailers in central in eastern Europe. So they, they, they wanted to optimize the customer acquisition cause they wanted to decrease their costs. So what we've done, we've applied the RFM segmentation method and we've looked at, okay, these are our best customers.

The most em segmentation method. Sorry, can you explain what that is? Yeah. Yeah, RFM stands for recency frequency and monetary value. So basically, instead of looking at all the customers, only by customer lifetime value, which is the monitor in this case, you also look at how recently they've bought and how frequently they've bought.

And when you apply this type of segmentation, you will have a lot of aha moments while you are looking at your customer base, like, I don't know, 20% of your best customer generates. 60% of your revenue, or 80 and even 80% of your gross margin. And those are your best customers, those type of customers you want to acquire.

And that's what they've did as well. So they've shifted their focus on the, on acquiring customers that look like those ones. So on one end, You have the quantitative approach with the rfm, and on the other hand, you'd go out there and you ask your customers why they are buying your best customers. Yeah.

Because the soulmates or the lovers, those are the customers that you want to acquire. So if you don't identify your ideal customer profile, then you will be shooting in the dark because there is a difference between the buying decisions. Made by the, by the bargain hunters, which are the breakups. Yeah.

Low value customers that are there just to have a good price, and then they jump to another opportunity to your competitors. But the good ones, the, the ideal customers. You can identify them with the rfm and then you can apply a survey method on them. So you can simply ask them with the right questions, of course, what made them come back to buy again?

And those are the things that you should be looking at, what they're buying and why they're buying without the why behind the purchase. My perspective is that you are wasting a lot of money on, on ads, and it's too expensive to acquire customers that never. Yeah, that's so true. Can you also, or does your system allow segmentation of like the high value customers by the channel that they're required from?

Yeah, a as long as you, as you send this type of data, we, we can also send it to, to Google Analytics, so you can create this type of campaigns. But we also have have a method to build audiences, and that's another way to decrease the customer acquisition cost. We, you can build audiences based on the RFM segment, based on the nps, based on the category or brands or products or serial location.

Of your customers. So you can create seed audiences that you can use for to feed the algorithm of Meta or of Google, because we have this integration with those those ad networks and with this type of method, it's basically dynamically built. Yeah. You have your best customers or system labels them, push the, pushes this to Clavio to do different email marketing campaigns, to meta to.

Googles YouTube and whatever. So that's another way to, to decrease the customer acquisition cost. That's genius. So you're saying basically you can create a custom audience or a lookalike audience based on Yeah. The, the people who are your soulmates. I love that. I love that phrase, the song mate. So you can create that and use that as a seed.

That's really awesome. That's powerful. And you can run ads directly to them as well. With Facebook. At Facebook and Google, you could upload that list and you could have campaigns specifically designed for that particular customer. Yeah. You don't even have to upload it. What's that? It's automatically, you don't even have to upload it because we have integration.

It's automatic. That's awesome. And if someone is buying is getting out of the list, then basically you, you have this To, to dynamically do things according to the customer behavior. And customer behavior is a really, really powerful thing. And if you don't use this first party data and zero party data, I think you're losing a lot of opportunities.

Yeah. That's so interesting. Yeah, because I'm just brainstorming Now you could also have you could also run your ads first to this audience and get some, you know, some proof on the ads cuz if they are your raving fans and your soulmates, they're gonna write nice comments on the ads and then you could then rerun those ads to colder audiences with the lovely comments on them.

It's a technique we've done for years that it's kind of putting it on steroids. I like that. Okay. Interest. So what about you? You mentioned when when we got in touch about coming on the show that you would be keen to talk about cognitive biases and machine learning. So tell me more about that.

I'm intrigued. Yeah, so basically the cognitive biases are are. As the name says, our brains are not are not as rational as we we want, or we, we, we want to think. And there are some biases which can be, can be used properly in an ethical manner, basically. And one of the, one of the cognitive biases, it's.

The framing. So for instance there was this experiment made by Daniel Kahneman Anderski, I think 40 years ago at the University of Columbia, and they've discovered that they've asked something like 200 students, 200 of their students they've said that there is an pandemic and they have two groups.

They have two, two treatments. Yeah. And they've framed the same thing in different manners. So they've asked how many of the students will pick a treatment by framing the reality different in one when in for a, for, for group A, they've stated something like 70 people will will survive. And for the other one they've stated, 40 people, 40% of the people will die.

And the conversion rate was the almost triple when the framing was positive because basically we are making decisions based on. The words that we are getting. But at the end of the day, if you consider the reality from the mathematical perspective, it was the same thing. Yeah. 40% will not survive, 70% will survive with the, with that treatment.

So basically we can leverage this type of framing in our in our decisions too. Because one thing that many marketers are neglecting is that people are not running towards desire most. Population, if you think about it, they are risk advert and people which maybe here in the audience we have entrepreneurs.

Yeah. When you're an entrepreneur, you don't have that risk aversion like the other ones do. And basically you are running towards fulfilling your goal and you can be yourself biased into the belief that. Your audience are behaving like you, and one thing that could be done is to to shift your messaging from the positive perspective to the negative one, so people are more willing to run from fear.

Then they are willing to run the words their goals, their desires, and, and that's why the, the, the the way that you are crafting your messages and your creatives as well can also be around. For instance, now it's Black Friday, it's. The, the if you state something like save 20% or save $20 is even more than get $20.

So it's more impactful because people are looking not to lose yet. The loss aversion is more, more important. And that's another another cognitive bias. We have this loss aver, so it's we are more willing to keep what we already have, let's say in that experiment, people were being, were being put in, in front of a decision, like getting.

Earning $100 or not losing $100, and basically the, the most of them preferred not to lose $100. So, Mainly those biases can be used in your, in your messaging because mainly it's, it's such a com competitive landscape right now in the e-commerce. And we are, we are seeing this all over. We are seeing that the ct, the, the CPCs going up, we have the CPMs, like double the, if you look at the, the, the pricings last year because there is more competition and the, the Consumption is not where it we wanted it to be with more, more players addressing the same, the same market.

So mainly those are the cognitive biases that are plenty of those. I, I, I strongly advise to, to to read more about customer behavior, about cognitive biases, because in the eCommerce game, and we haven't touched on this subject, Jesse, It's not only product and customer experience, it's also the fourth thing, which is the marketing.

Yeah. And marketing requires better messaging. And what better messaging can you use than the ones that you are getting from your existing customers after you do this type of of research? Yeah, so your system can help marketers to shape their messaging more clearly towards customers by gaining insights about their reason for buying, or their reason for being happy that the customers that are the best customers, you can then gain insights about them.

Do you have any examples of how you guys have done that with some of your your clients? Yeah, yeah, sure. So, for instance, we have I, I have this let's say obsession to always work with the client, a direct client, you know, because mainly our, our company, we are doing software. We have an academy teaching people about all those things.

I teamed up with the eight other A players instructors, professors, practitioners, and so on. So mainly I'm, let's say, obsessed on always. Going out there in the front line, you know, to, to work to work directly with some clients. And one of our, my former clients they were selling supplements and we, we've blended the, the.

The insights that we've got was from their best customers was that the, the supplements that they are taking are kicking in the effects only after eight weeks. So basically, it took a customer to be happy and to see the, to notice the effects on their own bodies. Two months. So mainly they were seeing their customer retention like only 40%.

So free out of 10 customers are buying, were buying again. And after they made, we made this research together with them and we found from their soulmates, which by the way, your soulmates with the rfm, they are not only, they have only bought. A lot at some point, you know, because with the rfm, those are distinct group of customers.

We call them the don't once. Yeah. Because they are one night standards. They come, they buy a lot, and then they don't do anything. And they, every brand has this type of customers. But you want the soulmates, which have bought a lot, but multiple times and they are still active. If you look at their last purchase and the, the with this brand, they've realized that the main trigger.

Those customers were patient enough to see the results because those natural supplements are not working like the, the normal remedies out there from the drug stores. So they've shifted their communication and they've set clear expectations to their customers, like nature needs. Its time something among this lines.

So yeah, congrats from buying. You're on a path of of a few weeks to get to your results. And basically with this type of new messaging, they, they've also. Trained their customers into having realistic expectations towards how those products will affect them. And at the end of the day, they've they, they, they got from 29% to 48% in the customer retention.

So that was a big uplift. And again, it wasn't, it was about the messaging, but that messaging was in line with the research that they've made on their customers and with other type of lending pages, other type of ads, because retention starts at the acquisition phase, and those are not separate. By the way, Jesse, I think we are on the same page here.

It's. Acquisition or retention is acquisition and retention, which basically means customer value optimization. You acquire the best customers from the very beginning and you have higher chances for them to return, to return to, to come back, to buy again. Yeah. So mainly that, those are some examples I have.

Okay. So with the, the changes in data privacy that are coming in our industry and the fact that, you know, there's talk of the cookies going away, although we don't know whether that's actually gonna happen, it keeps getting pushed out.

But at the end of the day, you know, iOS 14 already happened. And and that meant that we lost a lot of the data that we, that we were able to have about customers and where they came from. What are some potential solutions to this? And yeah. What, what do you advise people to be doing now to kind of combat this loss of data?

Yeah. One one of the best solutions that we've also applied is to collect zero party data. So basically we have this conversations zero party data, first party data, third party data, whatever. So zero party data means that I'm sharing. With a company intentionally. Some data about myself, my, my, my preferences and whatever.

So with the zero party data, we even have a flow. You can fight it on on the CBO Academy. It's it's like this. So first you do the customer research and you understand the why behind the purchase of your best customers. Yeah. And this methodology works like this. You first get the, the RFM segments your best customers, and then you do in depth interviews with a few of them to understand what kind of struggles they had.

Because again, as I've told you earlier, people are buying due to some frustrations. Yeah. So I I'm deciding to, to change my shoes when I realize that they are too tight or I don't, they, they look like I'm from the back to the future or whatever. So when, when I'm having a struggle, Something on each, you know, that's when I'm buying.

And when you do marketing, you wanna do marketing for that particular moment. That particular moment, which is called the struggling moment. Yeah. So when you when you are in front of the computer and it's not working anymore, that's when you say, I'm gonna change you. You know you're gonna open, but I, you set your mind to change that.

So you, you've already decided, but it is not like you go to the store or you go online to change your laptop. However you've set your mind to do it, and it's just a matter of time. And that's the active looking. Yeah. So basically you have the passive looking and then you have the active looking. Yeah, so with the research you understand what are the struggling moments, so you understand why the customers want to, to buy those kind of products.

So once you understand those, these methodologies called jobs to be done, it's a great methodology. I, I had the pleasure and the honor to, to, to get it from one of the pioneers of the jobs to be done methodology, Boba. but with the jobs to be done, you understand that the same product can have multiple let's say purposes.

Yeah. So the, the fact that I'm 42 years old and I'm uh, having two kids and a white Swiss shepherd doesn't mean that I. Within the, the, the target of, of buying a certain brand. Yeah. I've bought this oring, but this is being bought by ladies as well, by sports sports adults and whatever. Yeah. So we are, we are from different countries.

We have different genders, but however we are buying the same products. So basically the job to be done is more important than the buyer persona, let's say, which is a fictional. So with the jobs to be done, you ask your best customers why they've bought the product, and maybe with the same purpose. I've bought it, by the way, Jesse, I've bought the, my, my ordering because I have sleep I've been sleep deprived and I got through a burnout in 2017, and I've, I've swore that I'm not gonna.

Lose any of my sleep. So basically that's, that's why maybe you've bought it for sleep and something else. So basically there are multiple ways that you multiple reasons why people are buying the same product. So with the jobs to be Done methodology, you find the why behind the purchase, and then you have this type of job statements like.

When I feel like I'm going nuts due to the fact that I'm not sleeping, okay? Help me monitor my sleep and make sure that I'm doing the right things so that I, I be, I can be healthy and productive at my work. So that's a job to be done. Another job to be done for the same product could be when I forget my phone.

And I wanna track how many steps I've made. In my training, help me not carry this phone or having a, a fitness band with me so that I can track how many how good I've, how well was my exercise. So basically, these are different jobs to be done. With the jobs to be done, you build different landing pages for sleep deprived people, for runners, and with these landing pages, you have of course different ad campaigns with different unique value propositions, which are built with the data that you've got from the surveys of your best customers.

And with this kind of data, You build flows, because if you have the same product with a different job, then your email campaigns should be different because you wanna nurture those customers into be doing two things, getting value from your products so that they can become your brand ambassadors or coming back to buy again if you are selling products with the a higher purchase frequency.

Mm-hmm. . So basically that's, that's another way to, to, to leverage. The zero party data? Yes. Yeah. You collect it, you use it, and then you, you, you use it not only to acquire customers and to remarket them in order to buy based on the job that they have, but also on the post purchase flows. Interesting.

Yeah. So zero party data collection is not so much about customer research, it's about actually collecting data points that you use to optimize your marketing to that person. So it would be exactly changing their landing page, changing the flows that they're in, potentially changing the ads that they see.

And the, that information is, is something that they voluntarily give, whereas first party data, I always forget. What's the difference between first and zero? First is like more just basic data, like email. Location, first party data. It's exactly things that you have attached to the customer profile that everyone is having.

Like yeah, he bought from Brisbane. His he bought four times. He bought this kind of product, that brand and whatever, but zero party data, it's, he said that he has a. Or he had, he said that this is he's buying this due to, I don't know, he's sleep deprived or he's looking to, to lose weight or whatever.

So with this type of data that the customers intentionally shared with you, you can collect it. Before the purchase so that you can remarket them based on those kind of data like having a cat or being a parent or whatever. Or you can collect it on the thank you page, but you can craft an basically if you, if you go on our blog, we have this customer value optimization.

Flow to leverage zero party data, and you can, you can get it, get it from there. The basic idea is you collect the zero party data and then you blend it with the first party data. Like you have high value customers that are having cats. So what do we wanna do with this kind of customers? Yeah. Mm, interesting.

And so, so what are the main ways to collect third party data? You. Yeah. You mentioned a few there, but like, what would be the, the obvious ways to collect zero party data simply and, and then be able to act. Yeah, you simply add an overlay on, on your website, or you can embed it throughout the page on the product page, for instance.

Oh, and by the way, do you have this or that, or what's the, what's the reason for you that why you've bought from us today? So you can, the idea is to have predefined the options and in order to get to the right zero party data to. You need to do customer research in advance. Mm-hmm. , because you can ask your customers a lot of things which are not that important.

So you wanna ask them things that are relevant relevant for them. Once you have that, it's like, for instance, one of our customers, they are selling toys. And they, the, one of the most important thing for them is that if they buy these toys for their kids or as gifts for someone else's kid mm-hmm.

And based on that you can, you can build different email flows. Yeah. I mean it's you, you know, you can trigger, for instance, if you know that maybe you have an uncle buying something for his niece, you can tag. With the zero party data, and after three months, you can say it's Christmas months. Look what we've prepared for your niece.

So basically there are some moments when he's going to buy presents and not, that's not only when it's her birthday, there are also these this what, this what the universal, universal moments. What this. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's clever. So you can collect it in the form of like just questions that are sort of, that pop up from time to time during a visit, or you could have a quiz that's like a more involved moment to collect the data.

That's really interesting. And is that something that your system does or is that something that, that would need a third party? Yeah. Yeah, we, we have this survey survey section as well if if you need to build an advanced quiz. We, we don't have that capability, but and, and I'm a strong fan of quizzes, by the way.

I think those are an, an incredible conversion tool for for eCommerce because we, we, we have seen the power of, of the quizzes. However, it's not working for all the type, all type of customers. For instance, for a marketplace, which. 3000 SKUs or whatever, even more than that, you can't quiz the, the customers to, to too much.

But for a fashion brand, which is selling lingerie, let's say, then you can do a lot of things with the with that for sure. With those type of quizzes. Yeah, certainly. Yeah. Fashion, jewelry, interiors, I can see those being it being really useful. Yeah. Which is what most like Yeah. Cosmetics as well.

Cosmetic extent. And by the way, By the way, the, the, the quizzes one, one very important yet neglected thing about about the quizzes is that you can progressively build the profiles of your customers and you can look at the dropdown. So it's not just throwing a quiz over there. You can adjust it, you can reduce the number of questions so that you can extract.

From your from your landing pages or from your from your website with, with this type of by, by quizzing your your audience. That's awesome. Cool. So it was great to chat to you today. Where can our, where can our listeners find you, follow you? I link all these in the show notes, but yeah, what's the best place to, to keep on, keep in touch with you?

I'm a LinkedIn person, so I'm posting there every day, almost every day or every day. And also, you can check out our academy. We are we are having a lot of content over there with a lot of a players in the, in the field. That's CBO academy.com. And we also have a free course. You can, you can get it from there.

So if you wanna learn more about how to increase customer lifetime value, customer research, improve email strategy, and so on, check out, check out the CBO Academy. Perfect. I'm link to all of those in the show notes and thanks for coming, coming along Valentine. Thanks a lot for having me, Jesse. And all the best from Bucharest, everyone.

Thanks.