Hi, Kurt, and welcome along to the E-Commerce Impact Podcast. It's great to have you here. Thank you for having me.

I'm super excited about this. I've been a longtime listener of your podcast and general follower of your content. So I'm super excited to actually sit down with you and have a chat. For those who don't know you, do you want to introduce yourself to our audience and let them know a little bit about what you're, what you're all about and what you've been working on?

Sure. My name is Kurt Elster and I'm all about Shopify, Shopify, Shopify. No, we've we've been Shopify partners for over 10 years. Been working on Shopify exclusively. For about 10 years, and I've hosted a, a podcast on the topic called Unofficial Shopify Podcast for as long, and we're up over 2 million downloads now.

Really proud of that and, but really the, the driving force behind all of that is for this. Since I was a kid, I always wanted to own my own business. And by the time I was in college, I still actively studying entrepreneurship. I was like, but I didn't have any entrepreneurs in my family. I was like, how do you do it?

How, how, how? And so that became my driving force. And for me, Shopify was like, That was just the easiest path to entrepreneurship for a lot of people because you can do it online. And same with the, my podcast with the show, I wanted to share those entrepreneurship stories because. I, it just seems so impossible a thing to do in, is a teenager and in my early twenties.

And so now I, I suppose I'm 40 now and I'm still researching it and still, still trying to help people achieve it. And Shopify just aligned with those goals. I love that. And yeah, it's so true that it seems impossible and it is so hard and the people that go out there saying that an entrepreneurship is easy are just damn liars because it's the hardest thing probably many people will do is running their own business and we need to help each other as much as we can.

Absolutely. So when you say Shopify, Shopify, Shopify, you have the podcast, which has a really great big audience. Now that's awesome. Tell us a little bit more about your agency. Sure, so yeah, our primary level of effort, as far as, you know, work goes, is theme development. We do just real traditional Shopify work, which is building custom themes, maintaining, supporting, customizing themes supporting merchants, and migrating stores, or setting up new stores on Shopify.

And that's, like, that's the big... That's our, our big core competency and then, you know, we, we dabble in Shopify apps a little bit and then there's, you know, media in there as well, but, you know, themes all day. Yeah. Awesome. And for the uninitiated people that may be just getting started, what does a Shopify theme actually mean and what is developing a theme really mean when it, you know, in reality?

So it's interesting about Shopify is, you know, for me, I don't know about other people, but I always think about it as like, that's, that is a website platform built around selling stuff online around e commerce, but it really, it's for them, they've got this hub and spoke model and, you know, Shopify is the hub and then you plug in what you need to it.

Online store is just one of those spokes. And for the online store, how do you determine how it looks? What, what's it gonna look like? And the answer is a theme. You download a theme and then you configure it with, with your content. And that gives you the, the look, the skin of your store. So just as with, you know, consumer electronics, with your, your computer, your phone, your PlayStation, whatever, maybe you could download a theme to change how it looks.

A Shopify online store the concept is the same, you know, you add the theme that gives your basic look, but then there's, you know, tons of settings and options in there to get the, the final output of, I have a fancy branded store that looks like me, like my brand. And I guess the goal of the theme is twofold.

One is to kind of communicate the brand look and feel and for that to be. Whatever the, whatever the values they want to communicate. And then I guess, secondly, it's to make the store work better so that it makes more money. Right, right. It's, you know, the advantage to a website, that's your, your 24 seven salesperson.

It's always there, always selling for you, but let's be honest, not all websites are made alike. Even huge good websites can be a little odd, a little strange. And with small business websites there, you really get into some variety and range, you know, really, really fancy stuff, really bare bones stuff and stuff.

That's just like, seems to be actively challenging the user to daring them to try and buy something. Yeah, that's so true. Yeah. Still today, right? Some people are like making money despite themselves, which is crazy. Awesome. So I am super excited to get on with our topic that we that we, we planned ahead, which is You getting your thoughts on what the latest Shopify release.

So Shopify additions, summer 23 has just come out in the last couple of weeks or a week or so with lots of exciting quote unquote updates to the Shopify platform, many of which will massively benefit merchants and others, which may, may not, I'm not sure. So super excited to chat about this topic for you.

What are you most excited about from, from summer additions, 2023? Well, they, the. Claim with all Shopify additions announcements is that they have a hundred plus product updates. I think all of them have had a hundred plus product updates. And some of those are like, well, this is stuff that they had essentially reannouncing, it's like, well, we'd announced this before, but now this is available to everybody.

That's an announcement. And so that's how we get to a hundred and then, you know, stuff for developers is mixed in there. So we can throw that out. But within it, you know, there's always going to be dozens of major feature announcements. But Shopify is a big platform and has to appeal to a lot of people and it also has multiple plans.

So within that, you know, there's probably ten or so major ones that will appeal to a broad base that I picked out. I've made a list. Awesome. Excited to go through it. The, well, so do you, do you mess with AI at all? Do I mess with it? I mean, I play around with it. I try and make it, you know, make my job easier, if that's what you mean.

And so you just like chat GPT. ChatGBT, I've played around with a bunch of other tools. I started listening to some podcasts and signing up to some newsletters and just trying stuff out and noodling around, but I haven't found anything that's kind of like built into my workflow of any of my regular tasks just yet.

For sure. And, you know, I think that's, we're such early days with AI, I think the writing's on the wall, no one's really questioning, like, this is here to stay, but now, we have to find a use case for it, how useful is this gonna be, you know, is it a novelty, can we actually make this thing help us in our workflows, and so, the one that we've seen, we've played with Is Shopify magic, you know, their, their AI was like the big leading thing for them for Shopify additions this summer and Shopify magic.

You get it's essentially like chat GPT just inside your workflow. So you within the, the rich text editor in Shopify. So let's say you're looking at a product description. You get a little, little sparkle magic button and you click that and it'll give you some options like, Hey, you want to expand this.

Do you want to rewrite this? Yeah, what do you want to do with it? And then one click, boom, it does it. And it does a great job. So it's very much like Shopify just told you, Hey, there is a one click copy editor built into the text editor now. And it's AI powered. It's really good. What's really clever with that stuff, it like, no one likes writing product descriptions, but that's what sells your stuff, right?

Like that's the boring reality of selling online is you better get good at copywriting. It's tough though. And so I think for a lot of people Shopify magic is great because I could just write out bullet points or I could take a manufacturer's description and rewrite it and now I can get original content.

And so that's like a really easy path toward getting AI into your workflow. Yeah. And how good is it? Like, I mean, I haven't played around with it myself, but like what I'm always telling merchants is make your descriptions, you know, use those marketing principles like sell the benefit of your product.

Don't just list out the features. Tell the story of how this product is going to, you know, transform this person's life, how it's going to make their life better. Does the AI kind of apply those sort of frameworks? And is it smart enough to be able to do that? For sure does feature benefit. And that's pretty cool.

Now, like I'm super into AI and chat GPT is my tool of choice for the most part. And so I really like playing with it and being like, here's your tone of voice or like, here's an outline to work through and here's the core content. And so for me as a power user, it's tough to, to look at it and go, well, you know, I want to know how it works.

What's it doing on the back end? What's that promise look like? Like what is what they gave it, but apps feature benefit is like that. 100% that's what it does. It tries to give you that's at least that was an option when I played with it. Currently it's early access, but it will, when it's wide release, it'll be available, all plans, everybody gets Shopify magic, exciting, nice, easy way to get into Playing with, with chat GPT it like one of the, you know, it's not great at everything and I think currently people are trying to apply it to everything, but copy editing is like, that's a strong suit for sure.

For sure. Along with that is, you know, the other big AI announcement is a, is Sidekick. They call it, and I don't think anyone's played with this yet, but they, there's a video demo of Shopify sidekick. And the idea is I got an AI chatbot assistant that has full access to the data in my store to help with tasks.

And so you can say, Hey, I want to run a sale and this is the kind of promotion I want to run. And not only will it make suggestions to you, The claim is it'll do it. That sounds fantastic. Cause think about that. Like currently, you know, if you're working in your store and you're, you're spending a lot of time with it, you probably have people that are more experienced with it that you regard as smarter than you, that you ask for help.

And the idea is like that shop by sidekick, if you don't have a person like that, or you want to take something off their plate, that this would be able to help you with a lot of those tasks. I attended the, the Twitter additions. AMA, like whatever Twitter's clubhouse clone was with Toby and a couple of the other Shopify execs, Vanessa Lee and Glenn Coates, and listen to their their experiences and answer questions about Shopify additions.

And the thing they said about Shopify sidekick was because everyone want to know, well, when, what's the roosting? When do I get to play with it? And they said, we're not at a place where we think it's being amazing consistently enough. It's not what can't, it's not what can it do. It's how consistently it could do it.

And that's been my experience, especially recently with chat GPT, because if I get it really working well, I'll write down all my rules. Like this are all my prompts, put it in a Google doc, make that an SOP standard operating procedure. So I can redo it or someone else can redo it. And then I'll get a different result the next week using just copying pasting the exact same prompts that used to work.

And so, you know, I'm a person and I'm like tree, I'm conversing with it. If you're trying to use it in this programmatic context, like Shopify is, and they need this real consistent result and they need to be able to vet it against like, all right, you can't make stuff up here. If I'm asking you for analytics, I understand how difficult.

Making this work might be, you know, like for me, if it worked, if it didn't write 75% of the time, that'd be great. I just fight with it. For them to be able to put it into wide release, it's got to work right 99. 9% of the time. Yeah. So I think for sure that this thing will be really cool and helpful, but it's not, you know, getting it to work as a proof of concept is easy.

Getting it to work where you could have a million merchants play with it. That's tough. Yeah. So help me understand what you're on, what you understand this to be. So we're saying it would, you'd go into the sidekick interface and you would say, Hey, I'm going to run a sale, update the pricing for, I don't know, these products and it would just go and kind of like do it in the backend for you without you having to kind of manually make those tasks happen.

Is that what we're talking about here? Potentially where, you know, you could hit it, you could describe your goal. It could go. Ask you questions and then implement what you're trying to do. It can help you create products. You know, it could do that work. It could also, since it has access to the analytics, you could ask it questions and then potentially it comes back with, you know, Hey, here's, here's your average order value from this channel over X number of days or even better would be if it could make suggestions and be like, all right.

Based on what we know. About your store and similar stores, here are suggestions for things to do, things to try. Yeah, so you could ask questions like what are my most popular products or what products do I consistently not sell enough of and therefore need to run a sale on? What's my lifetime value on?

You know, people who buy this product first versus this product. And then you could use that data to make decisions, strategic decisions on your store. That kind of thing you're thinking. And for sure GPT could do this. The question is, how many times is it going to make up the answer? And if it's more than zero, like that becomes a serious concern.

And so getting it to work, I have no doubt they could do it. Getting it to be reliable. I, it sounds like that's where they're fighting with it. If this sounds familiar, it's because they used to have a product called kit. Years ago, yeah, Michael Perry was product lead for kit and sidekick has the same description as kit.

It's the same use case. Like just extremely, it's the identical idea certainly in spirit, but the technology wasn't there. You know, like Siri and my other smart speakers that drive me crazy. They're not that bright. They're dumb. No, chat GPT is like, okay, now we could find, we're going to get somewhere where now we're, you know, Siri could deliver on the promise it gave us, you know, 15 years ago.

Yeah. I wish they had it for GA4, you know, like, trying to find the reports I need to show me a graph of the conversion rate over time. Like I know the data's here. I'm just not smart enough to get it out. Yeah, exactly. Okay, cool. So what next? All right. If you're on B2B, you know, and this is a Shopify plus exclusive, the, they really have gone a long way to improving that wholesale channel, that B2B product where it makes a lot more sense.

Now it's more flexible and, you know it could vault credit cards so I could store my credit card with. That wholesale account to make purchases easier for business customers and we can do, it's got volume discounts built in. So it's like, you know, buy one unit, get X price. We'll buy 10 units and get 20% off.

In addition to the traditional stuff like priceless and customer based pricing. The wholesale channel was, it always worked, but it just, it always felt limited. It, it had constraints. A lot of the, by adding in new features and streamlining it, a lot of those constraints are going away. So if you've turned your nose up at, at wholesale, Shopify's wholesale channel, Shopify B2B in the past, it's probably time to revisit it.

And is that, how does B2B work in practice? Is that a kind of password protected site that the merchant then just shares with their wholesale partners to, because otherwise if it's public facing, the customers are going to find it, right? Essentially. So it's, you put it on a subdomain. So it'd be like you know, pro.

acme. com. And when I go to pro. acme. com, it immediately asked me to log in. It would use their new customer accounts, which are passwordless. I just put in my email and then it sends me a link to log in. And then once I'm logged in, it's like, okay, here's all your past orders. Makes it easy for people to see what's up and reorder and then place their new order from there.

Cool. Okay. And what specifically have they updated with this round? Ooh, let's say I wrote this down. All right. So in the last six months, they've made it easier for customers to place order with volume pricing, quick order lists more payment methods. So like, like business payments tend to be. You get some odd ones in there, credit card vaulting more features with draft orders where people like may need a custom, essentially an invoice.

You could draft orders are equivalent to an invoice and more code free customization options. So really just getting it into a more full featured space where in the past it was kind of like, this is the wholesale channel. It works, but you're going to work within it too. You're going to it. Yeah. A lot more, a lot more features to it.

So less hacky. And the other really, you ever do bundles on Shopify? You ever sell bundles? Bundle products? Yeah. I mean, we always encourage our clients to, I'm not like a merchant myself, but I always encourage our clients to, to play around with bundles as much as possible to increase AOV. With those, it's almost always an app that you have to use to do it.

And so they're like, it's a work around, it can get hacky. There is now native bundles on Shopify for the first time and the it works. It's really nice It is let's see. We got here current availability all plans and So anybody can can add this now Shopify native bundles and it look it works Looks and works like a product page So like you build the bundle, but it's got a title, a description, pricing, photos uses your regular, appears to use your regular product form, and then you tell it like, alright, these are the bundles and the pricing, but you associate it to products, so now it's not going to mess up your inventory.

So I like that bundle is a product and then you could set it up. They support different modes. So it's like a fixed bundle would be like, Hey, get a three pack of socks versus like it'll support pick and mix type bundles. Where I select what goes into it and then I get my discount. It's a mix and match bundles.

They called it that one really nice. And I think that'll, that'll get a lot of use. And if that's sort of like a product, then I guess that will help with integration with Clavio as well, potentially, because you can just add like a product block and with a bundle, maybe I hope so. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, that is that it's amazing.

They haven't done it sooner. I wonder why they didn't. I think in most cases, it's not that they know they can't. It's about, it's like, all right, there's some trade off here. There's some work around. That is going to make it suck. And so what, what can we do about that? And then, you know, when you're building a piece of software, this complex, well, what repercussions does that have for other things?

So it's like, well, we could make this work if we could just change this one thing, but that's going to break these five other things. That would be my suspicion. Yeah. Interesting. Awesome. What, what's next? Well, you know, and they're offering native bundles. They're also offering native subscriptions for the first time.

So in the past, originally Shopify Subscriptions were done where they would hijack your checkout. So it worked, but it was like, it was hacky. And then Shopify said, all right, fine. We're going to add official support for it. We can use the regular Shopify checkout and all our subscription apps got better.

And that was not that long ago. That was like after 2020 and now they're saying, Hey, we got our own native subscription app and that that's free. That's part of the Shopify subscription plan and the let's see what we got here. It supports yep. Customers could pause or skip orders, update payment, you know, do all the standard stuff.

But it's not going to do more than that. You know, whenever Shopify releases a free app or feature that there are apps for currently, they're sensitive to it in that they say, Hey, you know, ours is going to, is going to work well, but it's not going to have all the bells and whistles that the paid stuff will.

And so if you're just a merchant, you got like, look, I got one thing I want to be able to sell a subscription on, this is perfect for you versus if like your whole business is subscription, all right, then you probably want something more full featured. Yeah. Cause I was going to say, it must be pretty horrible to be these apps and then have.

A release that just kills your whole business. And for sure, stuff like that has happened, you know, and it's part of, part of building in someone else's sandbox. Like it's just, it's a realistic risk that you have to take, but you know, in the case of native subscriptions, when people were tweeting things to that effect CEO Toby.

Had a response to it that I wrote down. He said, are, are apps basic and utilitarian, but works well. This has been as a floor. We hope that all apps will raise the ceiling by providing more and more complex and exciting implementations. So for them, it's like, Hey, look, we built this app. That's a shot across the bow with the rest of you.

Better step up your game. Yeah, that's awesome. That's a great way of going about it. Cause it, yeah, it forces like continued innovation, which is what helps Shopify ultimately by helping merchants. So, and yet it offers the basics to those that are just getting started, I guess. Yes. Well, and think about like Shopify product reviews for as long as the platforms existed, they've had this product reviews app.

And. Yet, I don't know anyone that uses it. They all use the paid apps because the Shopify product reviews app, it works, it's simple. It doesn't have any fancy features, including one fatal flaw. It doesn't send review request emails by itself. And so most people just jump straight to a, a paid app. And so, like, sometimes these things can, could coexist peacefully.

Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Cool. What other features are you excited about? Well, one page checkout. So I have yet to have a, a client store. That has the one page checkout. I've found it on other stores. I went through and I played with it. It's really cool, but I need to get my grubby bits on it, right? I want to play with it.

And it's it's going to be available for all plans. It's been rolling out to more and more stores. I want to play with this thing so bad. The updated, the updated checkout, it's, it's just, it's the checkout, you don't love, but now it's faster, smoother. And then this additional option of one page checkout.

In theory, boosts conversion rate, and I think they were, they were highlighting 15% for the one page checkout which plausible, I believe it, but I want to see it myself. I want to play with it. But what we're hearing here is like. Hey, pretty much everybody is going to get access to this, but they're not, they're not dropping it on everyone all at once.

I'm excited. I have heard a few people in my community, whether it's real numbers or not, talk about really big gains in conversion rate from their clients that have implemented it. So, I mean, 15% on, if that's the average sounds pretty awesome, but I've heard, yeah, I've heard even higher numbers. Yeah, if you told, like, depending on the store, depending on what you're selling.

I could imagine it going as high as a third better. You know, it's one of those things where you want to be able to see it and play with it yourself. What happens then though, if everyone implements it, does that like mean that people overall just spend more? Or does it just equalize everyone out then in the end?

You know, it's a good question, like what, what network effects do we get into as these platforms get bigger and bigger? I don't know. I was thinking about that recently. I was like, you know, we, because I'm, I'm 40, so I'm old enough to remember living life pre internet and you didn't have nearly as many opportunities to spend money, but you also did not have like anywhere near the selection or choice.

And so you're pretty much forced into, like, whatever your local big box store could offer you. Yeah. And so, I know, good, bad, but I suspect, like, overall, we probably all spend more. Yeah. It's kind of that nudge effect of, like, the less barriers, then our natural inclination to go for the dopamine will just be raised and, you know, maybe we'll spend more online and less, I don't know, in our local coffee shop.

Something like that. You know, it's something I think about. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Exciting. I'll be looking out for that one. And then the other thing they're doing, so, they're replacing, they're changing how the checkout works. And, it's not a huge change. It's very similar, but it works better. And it's all predicated on this feature called Checkout Extensions.

And so they add a bunch of APIs and clearly they claim 17 new APIs, Application Programming Interfaces. These are ways for applications, services, to get themselves into the checkout, which is a thing that was difficult in the past. You had to be on Shopify Plus, you had to edit the checkout code, that had its own implications.

Now these are just like app blocks, you could drag and drop. Into the checkout initially, it was like, Hey, we got them where we could do upsells. And that's the one I've used. Hey, we've got loyalty points in here. I've seen that they're expanding on it. And so they'll You'll be able to upsell subscriptions.

Oh, okay. That one's pretty good. Get people onto recurring revenue. Oh, that's sweet, sweet recurring revenue. And the, another one is like address validator. So it's like a lot of stuff where that were apps in the past that like had worked and were necessary evils where they were like a little hacky to Shopify has opened up paths where these apps.

We'll just be easier to work with in general and ultimately they all get faster. Like that is the underlying thing about all of these changes. For the most part, this should just result in websites being faster in general. Because I think increasingly we're less, less tolerant of slow sites as we get better and faster connections.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's exciting. Yeah, I think that that's always been a hesitancy with clients of ours is like not wanting to add too many apps to their site, even if it is going to increase conversion or whatever, because they're really worried about speed. Which, yeah, rightly so. I mean, like apps in your, your tech stack.

Your, your tech stack food pyramid apps are the dessert. They're like at the time they should be the smallest thing in there because they have this performance cost. Well, and they have a, you know, there's usually a monthly subscription cost associated with it as well. Plus the you're adding additional potential for things to break on the site.

And so you, you want to take a critical look. at your apps. And I say that as someone who has a Shopify app. Yeah. What's your app? Give us the plug. CrowdFunder. Which it's an app that lets you include a Kickstarter style widget on a product page. Where it's like, you set a goal and a deadline, and then as units sell, it'll the progress bar increments.

And you can set it to like units or a dollar value. Oh, awesome. So you can kind of test out a new product with your existing audience before you actually like go to manufacture with it. Is that the way people typically use it? Yeah. Or for an existing brand, it's like, Hey, you could do it, essentially add social proof to a product launch, you know, where you make, it becomes very clear, like, Oh, X number of people have bought or like, you know, other people actually buying it and you're adding that urgency of the countdown timer.

Exciting. Cool. All righty. What's next on your list? Well, those are all the, those were the major updates I picked out and liked. There's some other smaller stuff, like the, we're talking about the checkout. If you're on Shopify Plus, you get additional customization options in that checkout, like, you know, just a lot more fonts you could pick from.

All of it, no code, just more, more styling options to get it more branded, which I always appreciate. If you use Shopify's custom fields, the gold meta fields, they said meta fields are 4x faster, 4x faster at what? I don't know. But we use meta fields all the time for like FAQs, additional product info.

I love it. And so I saw that and I'm happy to have it, whatever it's faster at, I'm thrilled. And I don't know the last time you logged into Shopify, but that Shopify admin got a new look. Last week. Yeah, someone peeps. People were tweeting about that. It's got that that Tim Burton color palette. It's all all grays.

Right. Cool. And so what else do you see on the horizon for Shopify? Like you're all in on kind of the Shopify ecosystem. Where do you think things are going to head over the next kind of year or so with either the industry, but with Shopify in general? Well, I think, you know, I think the subtext is over time that theme editor is becoming more and more a a landing page builder, a like drag and drop landing page builder, and increasingly they Shopify is getting better at being a content management system where, you know, I can have.

My, my data, my, my custom fields live in objects and other other, well, metafield metafields and meta objects is the concept. And in doing that, the end goal is separate style and substance as much as possible. And then that makes maintaining and updating those, those themes, the appearance of the site that much easier because now I can update the theme and it's not going to break content or I could change content without breaking the theme, you know, vice versa.

That's really interesting. What are your views on kind of these plug and play apps that, that do landing page building the likes of Replo, I think is one that I've seen. I'm trying to think of the other examples now that, that kind of help people to build. Beautiful landing pages with plug and play templates.

You know, sometimes I think what they skate by on is using really nice stock photos. When you see the demo and it looks like, well, of course everything looks nice when it's in the sandbox templated version. Where I think they shine is when they give you opinionated templates that are like, Hey, here, we know this stuff is going to sell well.

If you could get your content to fit one of these proven templates, you know, let them if we're going to lean on a landing page builder, let them guide you with their templates. And so if that fits your brand and your product, that's great. The, you know, the downside of it is it's another app. It's another thing to pay for.

It's another thing to load. And, you know, how does it integrate with other apps? The, where I found them useful is, well, as the name, as it's in the name, I would find landing page builders useful for building landing pages. So like the core, the core site experience I don't necessarily want to use landing pages for.

But for, you know, I got to make a promo. I need a really nice page that people are only going to see for four days. How much effort am I going to, am I going to hire a theme developer to build that? Someone to design it? Well, probably not. But I'm also going to sell way more if I've got this very specific branded page.

That's where a landing page builder is like the absolute. Yeah. Best tool. Yeah. But so you would argue there for not so much if you were creating custom landing pages for say you're kind of one of those brands that's really got like the one hero product and instead of using the standard Shopify product page, they want to create a landing page for the product that has a lot more content built in.

You would say in that case, you would use the theme. Especially like online store 2. 0 in a way that they hand the themes handle sections and blocks where, you know, if there's a section from the homepage, I really like, well now I can use that on my product page and I can make an alternate product page for this hero product and I can add all that content and you can really do a lot.

With these online store 2. 0 themes and never touch code. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. It's there's so many times in a market is day or not at least day, at least their month when they might just need a quick landing page and they don't want to have to go and involve a whole lot of people, but if you're building something into your site and you're properly testing it and it's going to be a key part of your strategy, then it makes sense.

Like you say, to like build it properly so that it works with everything else you've got. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Cool. Anything else you'd like to share with that audience before we wrap up? You know, no, if you if you've got questions, you know, I'm up for it. Reply to me on, on Twitter or, you know, comment on LinkedIn or if you sign up for my newsletter.

That's my real email. Just hit reply. I'm happy to answer. Amazing. So what are your Twitter and Instagram? Did you say LinkedIn? LinkedIn. What are your main ones? Twitter and LinkedIn. How can we find you there? So, Google me, Kurt Elster. KurtElster. com. That's got links to everything, including my newsletter.

Or on Twitter, I'm Kurt Inc. K U R T I N C. Perfect. We will link that in the show notes so everyone can find and follow you you know, you've got awesome content, so I'm sure everyone will benefit from following along. Thank you. Thanks for coming along and we'll see you on Twitter. Thanks for having me.

No worries.