Hi everyone and welcome back to the podcast. Today I've got Chelsea Berman, the founder and director of Blossom Media, and she is here to talk to us all about organic social and building a strategy for your e-commerce brand.

Welcome along, Chelsea. Hello. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, it's great to have you. Great to have someone from down under probably for the first time on the podcast, so that's pretty awesome. Amazing. I feel special. Yeah. Awesome. So do you wanna give our audience a quick intro to you and your business and what you do and then we'll dive into chatting about our exciting topic?

Yes, sure. So I'm Chelsea and I'm the founder of Blossom Media, and we are a . Social media marketing agency focusing on organic and paid social. And I started Blossom Media, I think it's about three and a half years ago now.  It's evolved a lot over time as the social media world changes and e-commerce. In general changes so have had to, you know, evolve with the times and adapt. But yeah, it's been been a great three years great journey

amazing. And your agency generally focuses on e-commerce businesses and growing them through social media advertising and organic social. Is that right? What do you do? Any other services? Yeah, no. So that's what we're focusing on at the moment.

But yeah, really, really focused on e-commerce brands, which is what we niched into pretty soon after I kind of started the business. Found that that was definitely my specialty what I really enjoyed. 

Yeah, definitely. Okay, so let's dig into the topic. So let's imagine that you are working with an e-commerce brand who's in scaling mode. So they already have some traction, maybe they're doing 10 or 20 K a month in revenue. They might have like one organic channel that they're kind of doing okay on that they seem to have nailed

that's one social media channel. What, but they haven't really nailed their organic strategy. Where would you start with a brand like this to build a more comprehensive kind of systematic. Organic social marketing strategy. Yeah, so I think with any brand you really need to go back to basics  and make sure you are so super clear on your audience and how you are communicating with them.

I think even, you know, those brands that are in that scaling phase, they obviously know their audience a little bit, but they don't know them, you know, inside out and, you know, they're pain and pleasure points, which are, you know, struggles, needs, wants. 

And once you do know that you can create that content strategy that ensures you are posting that awareness content to bring new people in and the right people as well, which is super important. But also nurturing your existing audience and, you know, changing their mindset from someone who follows along.

Maybe might be a bit skeptical or just might think your product is nice, but they're not someone that, you know needs what you are offering. And you wanna change everyone, ideally in your audience, into that person that will convert. So, You need to focus, go back to basics if you haven't already. Make sure all of that is super, super clear, making sure your content strategy is really great and then you can, you know, focus on those growth activities as well.

So when you are in that scaling mode, making sure you are, you know, going and engaging with people in your target market, new people, and also doing a lot of collaborations taking advantage of other people's audiences. It's also super, super important. You know, other brands, influencers. Et cetera. So yeah, those will probably be the main things that I would suggest.

Obviously making sure you have a really good system as well. And I'll probably talk about that a little bit later when we talk about, you know, content, creating content because obviously you are such a busy business owner in general, but also especially when you are on that scaling phase. So you wanna make sure you can do things easy and fast and you're making things as easy as possible for yourself.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So understanding your audience and, and you know, we talk about this a lot in every channel we talk about, whether it's the website, whether it's the ads, whether it's anything else that a brand is doing, influencer, making sure they're researching their customer. Surveying them having, one-to-one conversations with them so they really understand what their struggles are, what their challenges are, what kind of vocabulary they're using, what other content are they watching.

Yeah. So I think that's really important. You mentioned then collaborations and engaging, so you said the words engaging in other ch was it other with with other people? Yeah, like with new people in your target audience. Right. So you're engaging with your customers specifically. So what does that look like?

Like let's say we're talking about Instagram. Yeah. So how does a brand go about engaging with their customers there? Like beyond responding to what people are writing on your page? How are you actually engaging? Yeah, so it's a strategy that I call engagement outreach. And it's basically going out, finding new people in your target audience.

You might find them via. Hashtags or via competitors that might have a similar target audience. Obviously not direct competitors, but you know, people that have a similar audience to you. Yeah, finding those people even influences through influencers, finding those people and then going and engaging with them.

So whether that's replying to some of their stories or commenting on a photo here and there, following along obviously not in a. Stalker way. We wanna be careful we're not going in this commenting on 10 of their photos at once, because that's just spam in doesn't look legit. But yeah, just going and engaging with those people and getting your brand in front of them because it is, you know, a free way to get your brand in their notifications basically.

And if they are in your target audience, they hopefully will come return the favor and check you out. So yeah, just a really simple thing that I definitely recommend brands do on their organic socials regularly. That's interesting. So a brand that's kind of dedicated to a particular channel, like how many hours a week would you say that they're having their team kind of spending on this kind of social interaction part of the strategy?

Yeah. It really depends on what you can do. Anything you can do is going to be helpful. So yeah, I just obviously don't want. Brands to spread themselves too soon. But yeah, something like that is definitely something, as you said, a team can do. Or even a VA or you know, it doesn't have to be you directly doing it.

You definitely can outsource that. But yeah, even if you can do, you know, 30 minutes a day, an hour every two days, spread it out however you like to do it. J but just making sure you are doing it as regularly as possible. But yeah, anything is gonna help. So as, as much as you can do obviously is better, but yeah, anything's gonna be great.

Yeah. I feel like this is like a piece that I personally just really, it didn't, I didn't realize it for a very long time and because I've never been involved in helping brands with their organic social and I had my own organic social for my agency, which grew kind of slowly over time, and it's only really recently that I've realized that such a key part of it is not posting content out, but actually.

Being conversational, being social. So, yeah. I read recently that TikTok rewards creators that are commenting a certain number of times per day on other people's videos. Mm-hmm. So it doesn't matter, like. Whether that you're commenting particularly on someone in your target audience for the algorithm's purpose, but just the fact that you're commenting and engaging and you're not just going on there dropping a video and then going away, which I find really interesting.

Mm-hmm. And I've certainly seen that, like I know most econ brands wouldn't be doing LinkedIn as a strategy, but certainly like participating in the conversation, there is a key part. It's just what that is. What. You know, organic social is all about really, isn't it? Exactly. It's the conversation, the interaction.

Yeah. And using social media as a social platform, not just a billboard is super important. Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly. So you've got the, so you've defined your target persona or target personas, and you've got to understand, you know, what they care about, what's important to them. How do you go about then kind of putting together, Like a content strategy and deciding what content you're gonna put out.

Yeah. So it's going to be, I guess, slightly different for every business in terms of what content does work well and best for their audience. Yeah. But what the strategy that I like to use and what I recommend for people is posting a mix of connecting and converting content. So the connecting content is anything that's building that connection with your audience.

So things like personal content behind the scenes of the business. Showing a face to the business, creating more of that personal brand and also anything entertaining. So, you know, social media people do go on it to be entertained. So if you can entertain them in some way, whether that's humor, inspiration, whatever it is, that's really going to build that connection and get people more engaged in your socials and you know that connecting content is usually gonna be the most engagement you're going to get from content as well.

So it's really great to, yeah, to build that engagement, but also nurture your audience. And then you have your converting content. So that's obviously for people that are. Bit further down the customer journey, more ready to convert. And that's things like your educational content. So educating them on different aspects of your brand, what they need to know to buy from you.

And also that promotional content of course as well. Anything like reviews, building that trust influence, content is generated, content, any of that that's going to promote your products, but in an, in a interesting way that you know, your audience is actually going to. Find engaging and also obviously convert with as well.

So yeah, connecting and converting content is definitely what I recommend for e-commerce brands. And also making sure you have a good mix so it's not just all connecting content and not just all converting content. Mm-hmm. Because that's definitely a mistake I see a lot of people doing. So making sure that yeah, you do have a mix and you are focusing on all aspects of that customer journey.

Yeah. That's awesome advice. Yeah. I think some founders would sway in one direction or another. You know, they might just be like, well, what's the point if I'm not getting sales? And others might be like, I'm too shy to push the sales. I just wanna Yeah. Talk about the story. Yeah. And how much do you think, like, do you think, I know it's probably not black and white, but do you think most e-com brands probably need to involve their founder in the content?

I say yes. Yeah. I just think when you are wanting to stand out, cut through the noise. Obviously e-commerce is such a crowded industry, especially obviously certain. Industries within e-commerce. So yeah, if you really wanna stand out, what, what makes you unique is probably going to be you. You know, you are, you, no one else is like you.

So if you can show that, you can build that connection with your audience and build that kind of community surrounding you as a personal brand as well as, you know, your wider product brand definitely. Such, such a great strategy and really works well for faster growth as well. I find brands that don't really show their face, don't have a face behind the brand do grow a lot slower.

So yeah, it really helps when you can involve people in that story and you as the founder. Yeah, I would definitely echo that. Mm-hmm. I mean, I've seen in terms of my agency, social media, like the content that we put out as an agency gets very little interaction, but the content that comes from me Yeah.

And is a little bit more personal, definitely gets better traction in social. Cause it's a hu kind of a human based channel, isn't it? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. So what about, so we are going back to our example of this kind of scaling up econ brand. What channels would they focus on? Or, or what would be your most likely kind of bits to start with?

I know it will depend on, you know, the target audience and all of that. Yeah. And how many is too many? Like how many should they be focusing on when they're at this stage of growth, where they're scaling up? Yeah, so Instagram's definitely still my number one channel for businesses for that kind of long term.

Long-term growth, long-term business in general, building that community, having them there. I do obviously think TikTok is great. It's new kid on the block, a channel I would highly recommend businesses do start researching and testing on, and posting on, because it's a really, really great thing. For awareness, you can definitely build a community on there as well, but I do think Instagram's still a bit better for that.

But for awareness, you know, getting new people to your brand, getting people over to your Instagram or over to your website, TikTok is so, so great for that. In terms of, I guess, how many is too many, you just don't wanna spread yourself too thin and, you know, want, have yourself on five different platforms, but you're posting really low quality content and you're just kind of doing it.

For the sake of it. So I would say focus on kind of that one channel as your main one and then have those secondary channels. And yeah, it just depends on how much time you have because you wanna make sure you are posting that, that quality content. But yeah, I think for someone that is in that scaling phase, you definitely wanna have.

At least kind of Instagram, Facebook, TikTok. That's usually a good mix that I recommend. And then obviously if you do have more time do have your target audience on different platforms like Pinterest and that sort of thing, you can then widen that as well. But yeah, I also think obviously other, other marketing is so important.

So if you are, you know, say on Instagram and TikTok, but then you're doing things like paid social and email marketing, you're still going to have enough of a reach and you know, enough diversification across the different channels. Yeah, that's so true. And I think what's important for listeners that don't know this, like with meta, well I think, I guess this is true with TikTok too.

I'm not as familiar with TikTok as my team are. They are definitely amazing at TikTok, but. With, in, with Meta or Instagram and Facebook particularly, like those followers that you gain, those interactions that you get on organic social can be very easily retargeted with paid advertising. So that's a great way to like top and funnel, build an audience through organic, nurture them, and then hit them with an ad when they're nice and warm.

Mm-hmm. So that's kind of something to bear in mind, like the effort you're putting into your organic strategy is gonna pay dividends because it will help your ads perform better. So I think that's worth. Worth highlighting. And yeah, I mean, the same goes for TikTok as well. So, so one question, one burning question I've ha I have for you is like, I know on a kind of basic level, being a bit of a TikTok addict myself, the TikTok content I get and I see is much more raw.

It's much more it's not so aesthetic. As as Instagram. Instagram is much seems to me anyway in terms of when I go on the two feeds that Instagram is much more presenting like a, a beautiful view of the world or a beautiful view of the brand. Whereas's a bit more raw. But aside from that, I mean, do you think it's a valid strategy for a brand that doesn't have a ton of resource to be posting the same video content to both TikTok and Instagram with maybe favoring one or the other as the primary and then reposting it to the.

So the second channel, or do you think it has to be totally different content? Yeah, that's a great question. A few months ago I probably would've said no, but I do think we are getting a lot more overlap. I'm seeing a lot of TikTok come over to reels in terms of trends and you know, that voiceover content.

You know, reels used to be a lot more music based, focused on transitions and dancing, that sort of thing, which TikTok also kind of was at the very start. But as TikTok has, you know, become more based on trends and speaking to the camera and a lot more of that organic content, as you mentioned I think now they're a lot more aligned, which, Is great because it does mean you can repurpose content on both platforms a lot easier.

Yeah. I do think they, obviously, the way the platforms work are very different, but in terms of that video creation, I think yeah, you can definitely start that kind of repurposing and using the different platforms in, in a similar way in terms of the videos you're posting. So yeah, I think it's great.

For businesses because it means you don't have to create so much different content. But yeah, I think it's really becoming a lot more aligned, which is great cause I love TikTok a lot more than reels. Yeah, it'd be interesting to see what happens with the TikTok. I mean, when we will be posting this podcast a couple of weeks after recording, so you know, maybe TikTok won't be in America anymore.

Who knows? There's a lot going on in the news about, you know, whether America is a bit concerned about. The Chinese ownership, which is pretty interesting. Mm-hmm. But yeah, so I guess I imagine if TikTok goes away, or at least in some of these bigger markets, it goes away. We'll see. Most TikTok is moving over to Instagram or maybe some other player will come quickly onto the market.

Who knows? It'd be a very interesting time. Yeah. So would you say maybe it's like if you, if they don't have a lot of resource, it's like 90% of the content could be on both, but then you maybe have 10 or 20% that you do specifically for the platform. Maybe a trend that's happening on TikTok that.

Wouldn't make sense on Instagram. Is that kind of a good way of going about it? Yeah, I think that could work really well. Obviously on Instagram you do have a lot of other content you can post as well in terms of images and stories and all of that sort of thing. So yeah, it's still probably, depending on the brand, you know, focus on Instagram but you know, anything you post on TikTok.

Move that over to the Instagram platform as well. As long as it makes sense. Trends obviously start a lot earlier on TikTok. So I have seen, yeah, some trends on Instagram that I do understand. Cause I am quite active on TikTok, but if you weren't, it wouldn't make any sense. So yeah, just be careful of that.

Yeah, that's the thing, isn't it? Like if you're an avid toker like me, I like, well no, like at the moment it's the guy eating the crunchy. I don't actually know who he is, but it's some kind of meme where there's this guy eating these crunchy sandwiches. I don't think I've even. It's just like every second video I see.

Is that, that's so funny. And the first time I saw it didn't make sense. Yeah. But once you see it like four or five times, you're like, oh, I get it. Yeah. And everyone has different TikTok feeds as well. Like some of my friends, I mention a trend like that and they've never seen it before. So Yeah. It's so different depending on what you watch as well.

Yeah, that's so funny. I love how the TikTok algorithm will like, Follow my interest for a while and then like show me something completely new. Like at the moment it's all fashion and interiors. I don't know. I guess that's just what's catching my interest. Yeah. But for a while it was like completely different content.

It was all the stuff about feminism. So yeah, I love how it does that. Mm-hmm. Cool. So what about working with influencers? How do you suggest brands go about doing this? I know it's a huge question, but maybe you could just give us some high level advice on working with influencers and how you might use their content in your own brand socials.

Yeah, for sure. So usually I recommend if you ask, just starting out with influencers, starting with micro influencers, which are just more of those smaller influencers. They might still charge you, but it's going to be a lot. Smaller of a fee because you wanna be working with multiple, at a time, multiple influencers, and on a regular basis as well.

So you don't just want that kind of transactional relationship. They post one post about your product and that's just gonna get, you know, lost in the influencers feed. The audience isn't gonna remember you. You really want that ongoing relationship. So their audience is reminded multiple times about your product and also really trust.

That that influencer actually likes the product. It's not really ad like, it's really more organic. And obviously that's changed a lot throughout the last few years. Before you used to Yeah, just be able to pay. An influencer, you know, an extraordinary amount of money and, you know, get a whole heap of sales through.

But I think consumers are a lot smarter now and they're not really responding to that content as much. So yeah, I definitely think starting with a few of those smaller influencers using a few and on a regular basis and yeah, seeing, seeing what works, testing it out but that's gonna be a lot more cost effective and work a lot better long term than again, just paying one influencer a heap for one post.

Yeah. And so essentially you're buying their reach, but you're also buying their content creation Yes. Capability. Right. So would it be typical for a brand to take, like have the influencer supply the content and run it from their own channels? Or would it be like as a repost, what's the best practice here?

Yeah, it does depend on what arrangement you've kind of had with that influencer, but I always recommend, definitely making sure that you can use it as well on your organic socials. Socials and ideally paid as well if you can get that influencer to agree or pay them a little bit more. Because yeah, that kind of user generated content, even though it is paid and not, you know, completely organic, it is still user generated content.

It's not created by you. It builds that trust. It's showing someone else using your product. So it's really, really great and you definitely wanna make sure you are able to post that as well. So yeah, making sure if you do have the contract yeah, with the influencer or whatever it is, making sure that you are then allowed to use that as well.

Yeah, so the, I, I mean, coming at it from the paid social agency angle, we love it when they've got a deal with the, with the influencer or creator to let us use the, the content in an ad. Yeah. And even better, one level up is if they allow us, if they have a relationship with the influencer, where we can use their, like their Instagram page.

Mm. To run the ads from, again, that things like that will tend to cost you more money, but if it comes from the influencer rather than from the, the brand page, we've found that it converts better. So that's a little hack for people. But again, it's a, it can be a little tricky to, to orchestrate, but yeah, the ultimate deal then with an influencer is, They create the con, they post the content to their audience.

They allow us to post the content to our own our own channels, and they allow us the content to use and ads for at least a certain time period. Period. Right. Cool. So. Oh yeah. So here's a big question for you. How often should bra brands be posting on the, you know, like what's the kind of optimum amount of times a brand should be posting weekly on Instagram, on TikTok, et cetera?

Yeah, it's really dependent on, you know, each brand, the audience, what. They are resonating with, engaging with it is something you do have to test a bit. Like I know people on TikTok say that you need a post every day, or I did. I have seen, you know, three times a day and a lot of quantity. Which I, again, I think a few months ago was a good strategy on TikTok, but I now think that.

Again, it's just that quality content over the quantity which is great. But I just think consistency is key. So as long as you have that consistent posting schedule, whether that's twice a week, every second day, every day, people will, you know, expect your posts and know that they can trust that consistency and you're not, you know, posting.

Two weeks later, you post again and people are like, where did they go? I forgot about them. You're staying active in people's feeds and yeah, people, people trust you and like that, consistency, people always like that. So yeah, as long as you can be consistent, do what works for you. But yeah, ideally at least, you know, twice a week is where you wanna be in people's feeds.

And if you can do it more, that's great, but again, quality over quantity. Yeah. And yeah, I can echo that about the fact that, you know, it's posting consistently that as a, as a, as a social media owner is what gives you the kind of data and information about what actually works. Yeah. Whereas if you post randomly and you don't have a kind of system for tracking it and measuring it, then you never really get any better because you're not.

You're not analyzing what's working. Yeah, so for me, like on LinkedIn, I posted every day pretty much throughout the kind of lockdowns and pandemic. And over time I suddenly got a sixth sense, or gradually I should say, got a sixth sense about which posts we're gonna do well and which ones weren't, and then began to post more of the content that.

I knew we'd get the interactions and the views that I wanted. So I imagine the same as for all social you're getting, every time you try, you're getting data back about what's gonna work or what's not for your brand. Yeah, that's such a good point and definitely something you wanna be looking at. Yeah. And in terms of like done for you social media, is that something that you guys do as an agency or are you more putting together strategies for people?

Yeah. And then they can create the content themselves? Yeah, we started with just organic socials, kind of when we first started the, the agency. And then moved more into the paid as well. Yeah. But yeah, at the moment it's probably a bit more strategy based. You know, coaching, that sort of thing. But we have started doing a bit more organic social media management for some clients.

Just being careful of who we do take on for that because we need to make sure the client is still being active on their socials still, you know, keeping that engagement up, talking to people in the dms, creating stories, that sort of thing. Because it is quite hard for an agency to. Do all of that.

So yeah, just we do a little bit of it, but just depending on the brand and what they need and what they can do as well. Yeah, yeah. I imagine for most brands it makes most sense for that to sit as a function in-house and maybe with some support on some photography or, you know, getting some things shot by an agency or having the overall strategy put together.

Yeah. But yeah, the content's gonna come from the brand, isn't it? So, That's tricky to do for an agency to do, I imagine. Definitely, yeah. It's great. Yeah, when we can have that partnership and, you know, support them in some way. But yeah, I think you do need to still have some part of it as that brand.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So, Speaking about that with like the fact that it kind of has to come often from the brand brand, and if the brand is smaller, that often means the founder. How do founders avoid being just a 24 hour, 24 7 content machine and burning out? How do they kind of balance that? That challenge of like always being visible with like everything else they need to do in their business?

Yeah, great question. Having a strategy is my first tip. Making sure you actually know what content you do need to create and post. And then my second biggest tip is batching content. I. Do this for myself, I do it for my clients. I recommend it to everyone, and it's obviously what's gonna work from you for you.

So whether that's a day a week, you create that next week's content, or a day, a month, if you can create that much content and you then create that next round of content, and then it's all planned, it's ready to go. You can schedule it in and you can focus on other things for the rest of the month or the week.

However you do it. Yeah. So yeah, batching is a hundred percent what I recommend. You don't wanna be, you know, coming to the end of each day and thinking, crap, I haven't posted today, let me quickly do a post. And then it's probably low quality, it's gonna stress you out and yeah, it's just, you have so many things on your mind.

So when you can just get that content created and done you don't then have to think about it constantly. So definitely my biggest tip is batching. Yeah. Awesome. And. Final couple of questions. What have been the big changes to the algorithms lately? I mean particularly, I mean TikTok, if you know, but particularly Instagram I think is always kind of the talk of the town.

Mm-hmm. I see things all the time about this change that has changed. What are the big changes in, what do you think might we might see over the coming months? Yeah. In terms of the Instagram algorithm, there hasn't been any, you know, Big changes for quite a long time. There's obviously been little updates in certain areas.

You know, the algorithm still based on who's engaging with you. Those people are gonna see your posts more often, et cetera. I am a big believer in not changing your strategy for different Instagram updates because you will just be constantly reinventing the wheel and not sticking to anything. So yeah, I'm, I'm a big believer in just sticking with your strategy.

Obviously keeping. Note of the updates and, you know, knowing what's new and trying out new features. But I definitely don't think you have to change your complete social media strategy every time something does change on socials because it changes so, so often. And yeah, I just don't want business owners to stress out about that because again, so many other things to think about and stress about, so you don't have to worry about, you know, Instagram updates Yeah.

As well. So yeah. Yeah, consistency is more the name of the game, isn't it? And like analyzing what's performing well and adjusting your strategy based on all your content, I guess, based on what's popular and what's working. And that's a kind of tried and true strategy, isn't it? Yeah, a hundred percent.

So yeah, you can definitely change your content and the types of content you're posting, but yeah, that underlying strategy should stay pretty solid. Yeah. Sure. And have you got any examples for our listeners of brands, either brands you've worked with, or brands that you just think are great that have done well in social and why you think it is that they've done well with their organic strategy?

Yeah. Any brand that does create that community and personal brand, I love love following, love, engaging with love, buying from so yeah, any brand that can do that well is. A tick in my book. I have had a few of my previous paid ad clients do this really well. One is Fat Mango Creative and another one is The New Divine.

And another brand that I haven't worked with, but I always recommend checking them out for this inspiration is Bond Maxi Australian brand, all of those Australian brands. And yeah, she just knows her audience so well and has really created that personal brand and community and yeah, sells out pretty much all of her product launches.

So it obviously works well. Yeah, a brand I came across actually in New Zealand the other day that I think just totally nails the organic social strategy is mustache.co nz. They are a like chocolate cookie brand, like just, you know, it's like a family brand. I think they have one shop or maybe two and their socials are just crazy.

And I spoke to the founder and he said they don't do any advertising at all. Mm-hmm. They're an econ brand and then they have a store. And it was just incredible to me to see how they'd just use organic strategy only and grown, you know, a really successful, like, thriving business. You know, at a time when it's, it's kind of tough out there, right?

Yeah. He was like, literally we can't keep up with building enough kitchen equipment. So that's awesome. That's another one that I thought that I came across recently. That's, you know, a small brand cuz it's all very well to like, go and try and look at, you know, H and m socials or you know, big brands.

Mm-hmm. But actually that's not gonna tell you how, how a small brand that's independent that people don't know. Should be, you know, gaining traction and social. So, yeah. Awesome. Well where can our audience follow you, find you hear more about what you're doing with your agency? Yeah, so you can head to our website, which is blossom media.com au and I am also very active on Instagram, which is just at Blossom Media underscore at the end.

So yeah, definitely come check us out. I post a lot of, you know, educational content tips. As well as just agency life and some of that personal content as well. So yeah, would love to see you there practicing what you preach. Yes. Cool. We'll link that in the show notes and yeah, we'll look forward to seeing you on social.

I'll definitely have to give you a follow myself. Awesome. No, thank you so much for having me. Awesome, thank you.